Hi everyone, im new to dogecoin etc, well mining and buying etc. i have used Btc for years. I have tried everyway to try and mine today and failed everytime, ive followed guides etc and mucked up. my only way at the mo is using doge drip on android which is just a joke. Im tempted to buy, but i really want to start mining , mostly for fun. i have an old 4gb windows 7 pc (i use mac) shall i delete everythign any start again? though wont my ip be logged? any advice or help needed. thanks and welcome all tidy
Hey guys, so I've been reading a bunch of threads about ASICs lately, namely the Titan from KNC and wanted to share my thoughts on pros and cons. This a big wall of text that I really wanted to write despite being sleepy, so if I made any silly mistakes I apologize in advance, but overall I think I've made my point. =)
Let me know what you think, and while I know it's t3h interwebz, let's try to keep it constructive! =D
GPU Pros/Cons: The biggest pro of GPU mining is that almost everyone owns one and can participate in mining in any capacity, meaning that coin minting stays decentralized and not in the hands of the relatively few that purchased a bunch of big ASICs. Another great thing is that we know the speed at which GPUs improve over time. We know that neither ATI nor NVidia will come out with a card two quarters from now that will be several hundred times faster than the last generation so we have a kind of stability in the fact that we can predict how much the next gen computing power will increase and last gen hardware will remain relevant. Finally, GPUs are primarily made for graphics and we can safely assume that neither NVidia nor ATI will be 'testing' every one of their next gen cards for ~6 months and causing difficulty spikes in mining and then selling them to us after it's no longer profitable to keep them. Bonus: While not likely at the time being, long term high GPU demand may encourage a new GPU player on the market. ATI and NVidia are great but who's to say it's not time for a threesome? =P I believe I recall reading a while back about intel considering entering the GPU market, maybe they'll reconsider... So if GPUs are so great, why does anyone bother with ASICs? The single, and rather serious, problem with GPUs is the massive power consumption they create. While GPUs will eventually improve in power consumption as the manufacturing process becomes smaller and smaller it's definitely not fast enough. ASICs pros/cons Currently the only real pro of ASICs is the low power consumption. You could say better hash rate but so far the only real ASIC we have is the gridseed which provides worse Hash/$ than a video card but amazing Hash/watt. The first major con (no pun intended =P) is that the rest of the ASICs don't even have so much as a picture of a prototype unit. In the case of the Titan the claims are just plain extraordinary. 250Mh is over 3125 gridseed chips each running at ~80Kh, which is insane considering the price and power consumption of 800-1000 watts. At 3125 chips running at 1.5W would add up 4687.5 Watts for a single unit. At $10k it would mean each chip would cost you $3.2. Gridseeds are roughly just under $30 a chip. That's one hell of a breakthrough they must have had to boast those stats... Titan aside, what if the other more realistic sounding ASICs really do ship? Here's the big problem: ASIC manufacturers would eventually have near total control of the mining hardware if the $/hash is equal to or greater than GPUs since the low power use will make them more profitable. Why is this worse than ATI/AMD and NVidia having control over 'mining hardware'? Well they're not making mining hardware, they're making graphics cards which they won't hold to mine themselves for who knows how long before dumping them on consumers. The difference is that ASIC companies have just recently popped up all over the place because there's millions to be made by simply promising to eventually deliver a product which is a terrible business practice at best. GPU companies have nothing to gain, their GPUs will sell regardless and we know they exist and don't have to pre-order anything. The Big Dilemma: We have to pick either high power consumption of GPUs or being at the mercy of ASIC manufacturers. I believe that we can truly make the transition to ASIC mining for the sake of efficiency, we MUST eliminate the current business practice of pre-order a product with unknown stats other what is promised by the people that want your money. Here's why we will always lose with this practice: ASIC manufacturers have appeared simply because there's much money to be made from mining hardware. If they can make hardware that has very short return on investment why would they sell it? That hardware will be used for mining by them initially while it's most profitable and once they're ready to move on they'll ship the pre-orders. Think about it, right now those that pre-order give these companies the money to manufacture the ASICs, if they manage to build them and the ROI is high why would they ship when they can mine with them for a while, dust them off and then ship? Another angle to look at this is what if ASICs like the Titan really do get built in the near future? A few hundred of these 250Mh units will completely eliminate GPU mining due to the massive difficulty spike similar to what happened to bitcoin. Now what you have the entire scrypt network controlled by a few hundred. Even if it'll be a few thousand, spread that out across several scrypt coins and something that is meant to be controlled by millions is now in the hands of a few. It's everything scrypt stands against. It was meant to be ASIC-resistant for a reason. Final thoughts: Now while I highly doubt they'll actually make a 250Mh scrypt ASIC for only $10k at 1000W, the current business practice of funding unknown products has got to go. We can truly make the transition to ASICs when we reach the point where companies only take pre-orders once they have a fully functional prototype to display, not some terrible render of an empty box, and next gen ASICs don't make the last generation completely irrelevant.
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I am trying to get my gridseed 5 to work on slushpool. I am using BFGminer and whenever i get it working i just get the message: [2017-07-12 21:32:11] Rejected 0001849b GSD 0 Diff 658m/22m (Too low difficulty) i have tried upping the difficulty on slushpool to 1024 but keep getting the same message. is there a way to get round it? i only have 1 gridseed at the moment but have another 3 on the way.
I want invest in mining ETC from now on instead of buying it with bitcoin. I have a little bit of experience setting up gridseed miners back in the day but thats about it. Anyone had success that they would like to share and help a fellow out? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Hi guys, I have looked at mining many times and never got my head around it properly. Can anyone point me in the right direction of mining economically/profitably? I currently have 60GH/s on zenminer, but that isn't returning hardly anything. Any advice greatly appreciated.
Hi everyone, I'm very new to dogecoin, and most of what I heard about it is from my friends who have mined it before. I set up a wallet yesterday, and now I am interested in mining. I'm completely new to crypto currencies, and have very little knowledge of how to mine, so please keep this in mind. I remember my friend mentioning you could purchase a USB miner for roughly $50 that works very well. After a google search, I am assuming he was referring to the dualminer usb 2 gridseed miner. My question is, is it worth buying it? If so, is it easy to set up and mine with, especially since I'm a beginner? Plus, will it crash my computer or use a lot of energy? Thanks for any help, and please remember I'm very new to the process of mining and understand only the basics of dogecoins. I also have a limited budget, so I definitely am not able to build a rig that's worth about $1000, as it seems most of them are worth around that much.
I just recieved the gridseed ASIC miner in the mail. I have successfully gotten it to mine litecoin in linux with cgminer. But unfortunately I haven't gotten it working with bitcoin. I am mining from slush pool and don't start telling me that it's not worth it. I didn't expect it to be, I'm just a hobbyist. I have the cgminer command written down. I have cgminer recognizing the gridseed device, I just cant get it to show that it has connected and start displaying the status of it's mining job. I can do it with ltcrabbit and hypernova but I am unable to mine bitcoin from slush pool. Here is the command I used cgminer -o stratum+tcp://stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 -u baronobeefdip.worker1 -p **** Nothing is working, I want to know how I can make it communicate with the pool. I did download a special version of cgminer that was compatible with the gridseed device so I think it might need some updating. As for the device itself, the drivers for the console should be already in the kernel. I am thinking that there is more to be done here when it comes to bitcoin, I understand it's an entirely different animal and one cannot switch inbetween the two.
So sick of butt hurt GPU miners who started mining in December 2013, beating a dead horse over ASICs, an open letter to you all:
I know all of you that found crypto last November-December think that all the developers, community, merchants, and miners who have been with this for more than a couple months should hardfork Litecoin to meet your personal financial desires, and correct for your financial mistakes. I have made many mistakes in crypto too but was never so selfish and arrogant as to assume that coin developers and big serious miners should bail me out by changing their coin. I learned from those mistakes and moved forward. Give it a rest please. The developers have stated that the coin will not be forked for all you special butterflies that started running 1-4 cards in December 2013, and are now mad that didn't work out as you dreamed. No offense, you made very poor choices (I have made many very poor choices in my life, the key is how we handle them). I had run a 25 card mining farm from March 2013 to December 2013, and then sold all 25 cards on Ebay in late Decembeearly January 2014 at prices in some cases higher than brand new cost. I also SCREWED UP BIG TIME - I had a chance to buy a lot of Bitcoins at about $12 each when I first ran into this crypto phenomenon and I passed on them! I would be rich if I had the vision at that time to have purchased them. I did not buy any, and yeah, I felt bitter when they hit $1000 each, but I learned from this mistake and made better decisions moving forward with Litecoin. I did not expect Bitcoin to be hardforked for me! This was my personal failure and mine alone. I lay awake at night and think if I had just gone through with it and bought the Bitcoins! I don't know why KnC gets extreme hate. The Saturn made people ROI in weeks. The people who got the first Avalon miners made fortunes. The other ASIC companies are shadier, they are taking money but have no history of ever delivering anything (cough, Alpha, cough, Flower cough hint hint)! KnC is the only Scypt ASIC manufacturer other than Gridseed to have delivered a product in the past. So lets see if they get out 300mh/s Titan by the end of Q3 to customers - that is the agreement. Not to get off topic, but I am sick of hearing the incredible selfishness of those of you that made bad financial decisions in the heat of the moment in late 2013. If you had sat back and learned a little more about what was going on, you probably would not have bought AMD cards at silly prices that I knew would never ROI. Do you think you are the only one who has ever lost money on an investment? Also, please stop propagating the lie that Coblee made Litecoin to be ASIC proof. Coblee never intended that, and has said so years ago and recently. Instead of whining and being bitter, learn from your experience! Contribute something positive. Become a Litecoin merchant, learn coding and help with development, buy some Litecoins and hold them a while, contact existing Bitcoin merchants and ask them to accept Litecoin. This is s list of 1% of the things you could be doing other than whining that would have a positive impact on the community. Join the Litecoin Association at a minimum! Then people would want to listen and help you to focus on your success. There are other ways to earn Litecoins! Again, some of you made rash financial decsions, but it is not the responsibility of everyone else to tailor this coin to make up for your personal mistakes. Learn from it, move on, and stop beating a dead horse over an issue that is settled. I hope you don't make another bad decision and abandon Litecoin out of bitterness, as you will be just doubly bitter when Litecoin continues to succeed and the value of the ecosystem rises, and you realize how much you could have had. I wish you all wisdom and success but please stop your FUD campaign about ASICs, Litecoin, and the transition that is starting in mining. If you really can't get over your idea that the world should change for you personally, then move on to another coin, and leave us to succeed without your negativity. signed, Another newbie who is learning everyday more about crypto, a 15 month Litecoiner, a man passionate about the future of this coin, who is asking here for certain community members to grow up. That may seem harsh but is the truth of life, if you go through your life expecting the world to change to make up for what you dislike, be prepared for a bitter, dissapointed life. There is a lesson here anticipate change and profit from the change, be a part of the change, do not fight it. If you came with a positive attitude and took responsibility I think a lot more people would try to help you succeed in the future. My 2 "lites." ;) Big thank you to the community leaders and developers for the incredible patience shown to new GPU miners who had stars in their eyes. In the end they care about Litecoin, lets help them channel that energy into something positive for the coin.
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT, HIGH SCIENCE CONTENT Friends, shibes, it is my pleasure to speak with you for what I hope is the first and not the last time. I'm arrdem, I'm a Doge daytrader, economist and miner on the side, and a programmer during the day. Today I'd like to have a chat about some of the rumors with regards to ASICs and the X11 hash that have been floating around /dogecoin for the last few weeks and I hope bring some light to the discussions. On Scrypt What is special about our hash function? Why does Bitcoin use SHA256 and why does Doge use Scrypt? The hash function used by each cryptocurrency must have no known inverse function or algorithmic weakness which allows miners to cheat and compute nonces easily, and it needs to be easy to verify or recompute given an input. The first requirement is obvious in that if the hash function is weak, then someone can achieve a 51% attack potentially with less than 51% of the network's hashing power. The second is less obvious and is in fact entirely a performance issue. SHA256 is a known and trusted algorithm which has yet to exhibit any known weaknesses, and it is very very fast to recompute. This is why Bitcoin is SHA based. Litecoin, the intellectual father of Dogecoin, chose the Scrypt hash function because it was a memory bound algorithm. That is, the slowest part of computing the Scrypt hash of some value is waiting for values to be fetched from memory: an operation which it is amazingly expensive to make fast. The goal of choosing an artificially expensive hash function was to escape the Application Specific Integrated Circuits (ASICs or hardware miners) which had come to dominate Bitcoin mining. Because the SHA256 algorithm does not have large memory requirements, it was easy for Bitcoin speculators to develop cost effective hardware for the single purpose of searching for SHA256 nonce values. On ASICs Before we get to whether ASICs are good or bad for a coin, we must first assess why they made sense for Bitcoin so that we can reason about their impact on Doge. Because the computational power to find a nonce for any good cryptocurrency is expected to be large, that means there is a literal cost attached to processing each transaction on the network. While transactions may be nominally free or at least low fee, miners are really speculators expecting that someday the value of the coins they earn computing nonce values for blocks will exceed the operating costs and purchase costs of the hardware they mine with. This expectation that one day mining costs will be repaid is in fact the key reason that Bitcoin featured block rewards. The block reward was seen as a bootstrapping mechanic with which to buy hardware investment in the Bitcoin network through currency inflation. Now, ASICs and other mining hardware only pay for themselves if one expects to get enough return from block rewards and future coin price increases to cover the purchase and operating costs of the hardware. However, this is where the block schedule comes in. If we expect that thanks to the law of large numbers that one's return is on average the block reward times ones fraction of the network hashrate, it becomes clear that as the block reward falls it becomes very difficult for any purchased mining hardware to pay itself off let alone turn a profit especially as other miners purchase hardware to compete for the same block rewards thus driving up the hashrate. On the block schedule Looking at the Bitcoin block schedule, ASICs kinda make sense. The Bitcoin block schedule extends until 2140, at which time the "omega block" will be mined and the per block reward of Bitcoin mining will become zero. However until that time the per block reward will decrease 50% every four years. Today in 2014, the per block reward of Bitcoin is 25BTC and it won't change until 2017. That means that Bitcoin targeted ASICs can potentially run for three whole years or more and still have a reasonable chance of breaking even with no assuptions made about changes in the value of 1BTC. Doge's block schedule looks completely different. Where Bitcoin has a long tail on its per block reward extending out to 2140, Dogecoin will reach it's minimum block reward at block 600,000 in January of 2015, less than 14 months after Dogecoin came into being. With the 3rd halvening about 11 days out and the 4th on the horizon, by the time big boy ASICs for Scrypt start shipping in Q3/Q4, being September and later, the per block reward of Doge will have fallen to 31.25KDOGE and below. Third generation ASICs slated for December and January will likely never see more than 15.625KDOGE/block. On the price of Doge So what does this mean for the price of Doge? If the price of Doge doesn't increase at all, it's clear that the expensive new ASICs will never break even. This suggests that late comers with high powered mining hardware will be looking to recoup their investments and asking higher and higher prices for their Doge which should drive up the price overall. To put some numbers on this, at current prices and hashrate, accounting for halvenings, neither Gridseed ASIC even breaks even within 200 days if purchased within the next 48hrs. fn:1. Wait 30 days (after the comming halvening) and you don't come anywhere near break even. If I change my model to include some hashrate growth factor, the outlook is even worse. fn:2. This isn't bad news. This is awesome news for the price of DOGE. Lets say that Gridseed ships oh 500 units of their big boy ASIC, which may be conservative. fn:3 That's right, if hardware equivalent to 1K large Gridseeds came on in the next 30 days and ran at least for 200, doge would have to go all the way up to 702DOGE/USD just for them to break even! To the moon So where does this leave us. I think that the numbers I've presented here show that ASICs for Dogecoin are patently absurd, unless you expect to see a gargantuan spike in the price of DOGE which would make us all rich men anyway. While I'm willing to speculate on block reward (which is easy to model) and on hashrate which I assume is more or less linear, I have no mechanism with which I can confidently predict the price of DOGE out more than a week. Naive linear projections from our initial open of 80 satoshi to today's 126 satoshi over the course of four months suggests that in 200 days we could well see the ~300 satoshi prices which would make Gridseed and other ASIC miners profitable. However once you account for the high volatility of Doge, of Bitcoin and general market manipulation who knows if it'd ever go that high stably. So. To sum up. On the basis of these sketchy ROI numbers, I think that buying ASICs is probably ill advised. That said, I expect that people will buy ASICs and that in doing so they will drive up the price of DOGE at the same time as the supply of DOGE starts to dry up due to block reward decreases. I will be interested to see what happens to DOGE mining in January, as we will be the first coin to reach their steady mining state. I hope that the 10,000 DOGE reward per block will be sufficient to support the ASIC and GPU mining required to keep our hashrate out of 51% threat, but only time will tell. There is a real threat that the ROI of mining will be too low to justify the purchase of new ASIC let alone GPU hardware, which would lead to a falling hashrate and a credible threat of 51% vulnerability. However we could also see prices to go to the moon in which case that is no worry as high efficiency ASIC farms would take over mining securing the coin's stability more or less. I will note that no coin has yet solved the 51% threat issues posed by centralized mining, and I'm personally convinced that it's an intractable problem because as rewards per block decrease as for bitcoin, the costs of mining operations must likewise fall leading to greater centralization of compute power. By fixing our block reward we may. may. be able to dodge (ha ha) this issue however the essential drive to cut mining prices for ROI maximization will remain and will continue to drive mining centralization. With all this in mind, it's silly to talk about the adoption of X11 or another hashing algorithm, because if and when ASIC miners for DOGE become big business it'll already be too late and we will have already mined the vast majority of DOGE thus securing the distribution of DOGE away from the ASIC miners we seem to fear so much as a community. Making the switch to X11 simply delays the ASIC hardware which we want anyway due to the price increases it's likely to drive, forget about making us artificially dependent on GPU mining to secure our hashrate and creating an uncalled for blockchain fork. TL;DR
Stop worrying and love the ASICs, they won't make a ton of money and will secure our hashrate and by proxy our Doges!
STFU about X11. It's even more ASIC friendly than Scrypt, and we gain nothing from another blockchain fork.
Price projection: moon!
Open issue: How do we limit mining centralization without increasing inflation? Are we already at a balance point?
Really want to buy a miner and get started mining for fun. I'm stumped, however, because there are Ghashes, Khashes, and Thashes. Is this miner worth the initial investment? And if so what hash rate could I achieve relative to Doge coin?
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